Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  18

  Peter Sutcliffe - I thought he was a JW now......?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://newsthump.com/2015/12/01/yorkshire-ripper-calls-for-syria-bombing-campaign-declared-perfectly-sane/.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  That guy is an absolute monster.
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  39

  New GB video: Why Reduce the Number of Special Full-Time Servants?

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower released at tv.jw.org a new gb video with samuel f. herd, with the theme:.

  why reduce the number of special full-time servants?.

  it seems there is a reason to release this special message.. http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodstudio/pub-jwbrd_201511_4_video.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  This guy never looked the camera in the lens. Even at the end!

  My opinion:

  If you can't look me in the eye and say it, then it's probably a big fat lie.

  This guy could not even look at his audience during the perfunctory sign-off!!!
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  60

  Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

  seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

  they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Even if they changed it to say that elders should inform the parents and/or victim of their right to report the abuse, that would have a HUGE impact. This would change many JWs attitude toward reporting the crime and of those who choose to report the crime.

  What you suggest is already Watchtower policy. But Watchtower needs to go further. Rather than merely pointing out that victims have a right to report the molestation, Watchtower needs to encourage victims to report the molestation. It might seem like semantics, but having this active encouragement would lend support to the victim, not to mention increasing the likelihood of protecting other children from abuse. In my opinion and experience this would, as you say, have a huge impact. I think this is probably what you meant to write.
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  60

  Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

  seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

  they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I'm not sure whether or how important it is, but there is a nagging paradox within Watchtower's response having to do with supposed rights of victims and parents.

  Watchtower hangs it policy on a right held by victims and/or parents of victims whether to report child molestation to authorities:

  "Jehovah’s Witnesses consider it is the right of the victim and/or the victim’s parents to report."--5.7

  Accordingly Watchtower claims:

  "Jehovah's Witnesses do not take it upon themselves to report [child sexual abuse] as they consider that it is the right of the victim or his/her parents to do so."--9.313 (underlining added)

  Watchtower furthers the value of this underpinning by stating:

  "The decision to take away that right from a victim or the parents of a child must be left to the legislatures of each State or the Federal Parliament."--5.8
  "As was acknowledged in the Commission, there are times when victims may wish to have their matter dealt with confidentially within the faith. To deny them that opportunity may disempower the victims and may lead to further traumatisation."--5.11

  So Watchtower argues much about the right of victims, and how to deny this may disempower a victim and lead to further trauma. So Watchtower states a position that going around this right of choice is something that must be left to the State legislature.

  Here's the paradox in relation to this argument:

  Watchtower policy already lets elders opt on their own to report allegations of child molestation to authorities:

  "If a child is unable to report the matter to the secular authorities and the parents are unable or unwilling to do so, then an elder may feel compelled to report the matter to the authorities, particularly if he believes there is a risk to a child."--5.10
  "...if any elder was to see that there was some definite risk, that their conscience would move them to do that."--9.332

  So what is my point? What is the paradox?

  I don't think it wrong that Watchtower policy lets elders report these allegations even when law does not require it. In fact I think that a good thing! But this aspect of Watchtower policy undermines the underlying premise of victims' rights that it attempts to leverage to justify its overall position, which is a position that falls short of encouraging victims to report to authorities.

  The very "right" that Watchtower leverages as belonging to victims is a right that it admittedly takes into its own hands.
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  60

  Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

  seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

  they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Here's the telling thing to me. In all its many words of response, nowhere does Watchtower offer a single valid reason why as of now it has yet to publish a policy that actively encourages its followers to report allegations of child molestation to secular authorities charged to investigate and protect the greater society from such criminal behavior.

  The passive policy Watchtower touts 'it is each members absolute right to report...' blah, blah, blah betrays something more sinister given the ease of an active policy that 'we encourage victims of child molestation to report their victimization to local authorities...' Neither policy would require victims (or guardians) to report to secular authorities, but the latter would offer a much greater degree of support by underpinning that a decision to report is not only a right but, more, it is a good thing to do.

  But, Watchtower's hierarchy is, after all, running a business called religion, and business decisions are not expected to run parallel with moral decisions.
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  49

  Elder's letter requesting details of solicitors, barristers and accountants

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.

  what would be their motive for these details?

  the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  For whatever it's worth, letters like this are not new. I recall reading the same letter back in the late 1990s. It's a recruitment tool. Legal? Yes. Creepy? Yes.

  Watchtower gets these things and, if they're interested in someone they make more direct contact. Most of the time they do this through one of its traveling reps, like a CO for instance. Sometimes they arrange an coincidental meeting through a convention administrator who makes up a reason to have the individual in the convention office while a visiting bethel speaker is there. The bethel rep pretends it's a chance meeting and things go from there.
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  42

  How Many JWs Really Believe Everything They Are Told?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think that 80% of jws do not truly believe in what they are taught .

  the vast majority stay in because of family, friends, ignorance and a lack of caring about any of the facts regarding the "truth".

  many people are lazy.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  How Many JWs Really Believe Everything They Are Told?

  NOT MANY. Most will admit as much. But trying to get one of these to get specific and spell-out what teaching(s) they disagree with is rare.
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  45

  Liquidation sale of RBC assets

  by Darkknight757 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  got this very interesting email last night and i thought i'd share it.. this is from the local rbc.. "in harmony with our new ldc form we have been asked by the branch to liquidate all current assets of used tools and materials once owned by the rbc.

  you are invited to visit the equipment trailers to acquire items being liquidated by the rbc asset team, these items will be offered on a first come bases with voluntary donation.

  if you see any item you like please be in position to take it with you at that time, after you return to your congregation then you will make a donation of cash or check in the congregation contribution box designated for the support of the worldwide work.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  When you start selling your tools ... Just sayin..
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  19

  Book Review: The Hunt for Vulcan: . . . And How Albert Einstein Destroyed a Planet, Discovered Relativity, and Deciphered the Universe

  by Viviane in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i recently read this book and found it to be excellent.

  it's the story of how we never stop knowing, how science works (even when it doesn't), how gracefully math can describe the world we live in and more.

  the story begins with how sir isaac newton, author of pricipia mathematica and holder of the lucasian chair at cambridge, developed math to describe the gravity and the motion of the planets with no need god holding them in place.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Hi Viviane. If you like good reads on physics I highly recommend The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose. It's not an easy read, but it's a great one! I enjoyed your book review, and would say it's spot on!
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  30

  Document Blood Transfusion Deaths - please help

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  the vast majority of deaths from the blood policy are undocumented because they are simply not newsworthy.

  if you know of a death or serious injury/disability related to the blood policy, please help us document it.

  send as many details as you can recall.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  stan livedeath: only this week i read--on this site--a figure of 50,000 have died through refusing blood. ive queried that now--and before. one death is one too many----50,000 is just beyond belief.

  HI Stan,

  Not sure what you read about 50,000 deaths or from where you read it, but not too long ago I presented an estimate of mortality suffered among the JW population between years 1961 and 2012. The number was c. 50,000. This figure is an extrapolation of a good sample size consisting of more than half the number of JWs in New Zealand. As it turned out a review of medical records showed this patient segment suffered a horrendous level of mortality related directly to refusal of red cell transfusion. The number of JWs (the sample) in the regions which medical records were gathered compared with the population of that sample that suffered death due to refusing red cells transfusion is astounding.

  For a number of reasons this is a conservative estimate. For examples: 1) Though the estimate of 50,000 is based on the sample size of all JWs living in the New Zealand regions from which records were gathered these medical records did not include all deaths among JWs attributed to refusing red cells transfusion. There is no doubt that mortality occurred due to the same refusal of red cells in other trauma centers in the sample regions, but my estimate does not include this statistically because the documents were not retrieved to evidence those deaths. 2) Though my estimate covers years 1961-2012 the medical document retrieval only covered years 1998-2007, and mortality related to refusing red cell transfusion is arguably less in these latter years due to other medical technological advances. 3) My estimate (50,000) is based on a review of medical records in one of the most advanced medical regions of the world, which means if anything we'd expect mortality due to refusing red cell transfusion to be higher in less developed societies which are far more dependent on older medical means and methods to prevent mortality (not to mention morbidity).

  A few years ago there was a rather drawn out discussion on this forum about this extrapolated figure of 50,000. Though the discussion raged on-and-on for many pages it was evident (to me) that the statistical sample vs. population was understood by very few for what each represents. I'm sharing this history for sake of any reader who wants to go back and find the discussion to read over it for themselves and make of it whatever they will. It's there for those who want to see how, at that time, readers here responded to the information. My own view is that nothing in the discussion ever came close to refuting the estimate. For that matter I'd opine there was never anything presented that really challenged the figure of 50,000. Mostly what I read was objections based on misunderstandings about how to use hard numbers for purposes of extrapolation. Perhaps the most significant mistake made by participants in that discussion was confusing sample with population of a sample. But the discussion is there for anyone who wants to go back and find it.

  PS: I was encouraged to contact authors of the underlying review of medical records from which my extrapolation was made. The primary author responded to me saying that if anything my estimate was low.

  Link to original article: More than 50,000 dead

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